What if No One's Watching?

Excellent observation. I'm not sure exactly what conclusions to draw from the observation, but that is certainly a well documented theme you've outlined there.

Let's journey into Joss' subconscious.

Interesting post!

My thoughts:

Whether it is a conscious choice or not--that is whether it comes up in the writers room--this is certainly an extension of the feminist (which is actual more "womanist") impulse behind Whedon's work on Buffy to begin with.

The whole concept of Buffy began with the idea of the blonde girl running from the monster in the horror movie.

Whedon talks about envisioning that scene and then turning it on its head--this is how Buffy was born. What if that fragile ditz being chased was actually THE SLAYER and could kick some serious butt?

Consequently, the whole show resists the idea of female victimology at a conscious and likely an unconscious level.

As counterpoint, there are a lot of gender reversals on men and thus the target of sadistic violence often becomes the male body--it is eroticized just as female torture and victimhood is eroticized in the mainstream.

That this proves to be provocative to both queer and female audiences is a natural extension of the original womanist intention of the entire concept.

It's more difficult to find in Firefly, though, certainly, through Jewel, Inara, Zoe and Our Mrs. Reynolds (Yosafbridge), Whedon and crew still go to their favorite bag of tricks when it comes to subverting our expectations of gender. (Examples abound.)

The male torture scene referred to here is not so much eroticized as it is romanticized. It is used as a device to soften male postures--just as Whedon & Co. enjoy toughening females, they enjoy softening males. Wash and Mal needed this "weakening" in order to cope with some personal issues between them about Zoe--and it provides the perfect opportunity to have a woman (Zoe) resuce a dude in distress.

In a universe created by a self-proclaimed feminist, where the traditional view of the damsel in distress is turned on it's head, this seems only natural, no?

I don't disagree, I just wonder if there is something more to it as well. Maybe I am over thinking it--that's certainly possible--but the essay I read focused a bit on how the viewers may see/may be intended to see these images, and that's what really interests me. I definitely have to consider it further (over think it some more...).

Interesting post. However, I think you are missing a key point. None of the torture is every committed by "the good guys." I think the comment made by the writers here is as follows. In the cases of sexual or "eroticized" violence, that "love" without compassion is a very dangerous thing. It is almost a trademark characteristic of romantic relationships amongst vampires, because they have no souls. When Faith reaches this point, it shows the audience the really dark place she is in. When Angel tortures someone, it is as Angelus.
Similarly, the torture, eroticized or not, serves the purpose of moving the characters through their arc. Spike's torture by Glory, for example, clearly tells the audience--this character has changed. He's playing on our side now. It is also symbolic of his own inner torture that has brought him to the place at last where he will protect Dawn even under torture. The fact that the torture is confined largely to men, is probably, as already mentioned in an early comment, due to the writers' desire to steer away from victimizing women.

I think it's inaccurate to say that women in the Joss verse are not tortured. While I'm aware that you generally are referring to physical torture, the intense emotional torture women are exposed to on Buffy and Angel easily match their male victims experiences.

That being said, there are instances where females underwent serious amount of physical abuse that you didn't note. For instance, the episode "Billy" on Angel demonstrated exactly how abused and tortured women were. Lilah, a very strong character was beaten well within the classification of torture, and in that same episode, Fred was taunted, hunted and threatened by men she trusted. While the latter example may fall under emotional torture, her assailants attempts were definitely physical. This bring me to my final point - the women in the Joss verse have strength. What character could torture Buffy? A God? A master Vampire? When a female is as strong as a slayer, or a master witch, or a vengeance demon, the torture put upon them takes an emotional form and I don't think it's any less demeaning.

Now, if we're talking about straight eroticism and torture with the female characters in the Joss verse, I might have to agree with you, but I certainly could never say women in the Buffy Verse were not tortured.

I don't disagree re: emotional torture (and I started to write about that a little bit today). Yesterday, I was thinking more about the physical body and how it is punished in the shows. I can't honestly remember what happens to Lilah in "Billy"--I'll have to go back and look--but you may well have found a counterexample to what I was saying.

As far as who could torture the strong female characters, part of the point I was trying to make was that they were put into situations where they could have been tortured and then weren't. I listed a few times when Buffy was physically incapacitated (generally tied/chained up) and she wasn't tortured in any of those situations, even though her life was presumably threatened. That was what I found interesting.

This is an interesting observation.

I can't help but think this isn't as simple as first glance makes it. For instance, many of the examples you provided of male torture involved the withholding of information. The torture (and this was touched on in an earlier comment) was used as a vehicle to display masculine heroics.

This really makes me wonder. Can't women display heroic behavior by enduring torture as well? Is it fair to give men all the Braveheart scenes? Aren't we simplifying the female role by suggesting that it's based entirely on strength and violence, and not at all on a willingness to endure the most awful things imaginable for the safety of those they love?

It's possible that it's purely a counterpoint to the general view of women in society, but I can't say that general society necessarily celebrates torture of the feminine.

That's a really really good point. I hadn't thought of it that way at all--women aren't given the opportunity to display heroism by undergoing torture, as men do (Giles, Angel, Spike). I'll definitely give that more thought.

Really interesting observations.

re: resisting female victimology with Buffy Hand in hand with female strength is of course, fear of male victimology because of female strength. Often the torture scenes mentioned are avenues to explore fears on the fate of men when women have power. Even in a scene where Angelus is torturing Giles, a male-on-male violence scene, much of the subtext is about associating with strong females. At this point in the series, we don't know that much of Giles's abilities in the field, and what we have seen is not all that impressive. It could easily be inferred that he would not be tortured, clearly outmatched, if he were not tied to Buffy. And of course, the other underpinning argument, is can a man in a vulnerable position rely on a woman's strength? Of course, I also would hesitate to assume these dynamics (men/vulnerable, women/strong) as pure gender reversals; they also forcibly question the stereotype that woman are not to be trusted.

Hey, interesting article. I just wanted to point out one example of a woman undergoing physical pain to protect the ones she loves which is Tara in Tough Love when she has her hand crushed by Glory when Glory is try to find out who the key is. I'm not saying its a torture scene but I think the writers are willing to go there if the narrative requires it, but are understandably reluctant to show females being tortured while semi naked etc.

my point of view: joss whedon depicts very cleary how abuse in childhood leads to problems in later life. either the person becomes violent him/herself (f.e. liam/angel) or she/he will not imitate his/her abuser and strive to do better (wesley). both depends from various factors concerning upbringing, environment, new ancounters and experiences (faith's development). it is a main team in joss' work. any connection of torture and sex subsumes to that field.

I found this a very interesting observation - it was indeed something that I had not picked up on before in all my years of watching the show. One theory that I can suppose would be that all of the men that are shown in Buffy the Vampire Slayer (not so much Angel the Series) are portrayed as strong -- be it physically or mentally/emotionally -- as a conterpart to the hugely obvious themes of female empowerment and the strength of women over the strength of men.

For instance, Angel is an imposing character (before he become Angelus) as seen in "What's My Line?" when he steps into Willy's Bar. He is a huge, threatening behemoth in the shadows and steps from these shadows to exercise his superior vampiric strength over the human to gain the information that he wants. This is shown again in various scenes in Angel TS when he wants information from snitches in L.A. In showing that he can not only be defeated but stripped of his dignity (the nudity) and his pride (that it is HIS creation, Drusilla, who is now torturing HIM) and submitted to intense physical pain, it demonstrates that Angel is weak as well and creates both sympathy and desire for the character.

Also, women are displayed in modern culture as being weakened by being subject to their emotions -- this is actually explored in the second season of Buffy when she cannot kill Angelus despite everything that he has done (he must brutally murder Jenny Calendar and leave her body as a form of psychological torture for Giles before Buffy finally decides he must die). Thus most of the torture perpetrated on women during Buffy's run was emotional torture -- such as Buffy's experience with Angel/Angelus, Buffy's degrading and immoral relationship with Spike, Buffy being pulled out of Heaven, etc. etc.

However, it is in the nature of the modern vampire mythology for the vampire beast to have an undeniable eroticism. The seductive immortal cliche still rings true in the Buffyverse - for instance, after the Master is defeated, you hardly ever see a vampire with a prominant story arc that is not attractive - the main vampires are Angel and Spike (who, if I do say so myself, are both extremely good-looking). I think that it is perhaps the working of Joss Whedon's mind that he would know that it would press many buttons were torture to be eroticized as well. While there are people who "get off," pardon my vernacular, on BDSM, there is a fundamental denial in the human mind that physical pain can equal pleasure. Therefore (I return to a good example of this) Angel's torture scene in "What's My Line?" is all the more horrifying to the viewer simply because this enormous, strong, gorgeous immortal is bound hand and foot and you can so easily place yourself in Drusilla's shoes - subconsciously give yourself power over him.

While there are many examples of how the Buffy/Angel torture scenes are used conventionally (i.e., to withdraw information, to inflict pain on an enemy, etc) it is my firm belief that Joss Whedon and his troupe of writers used the repeated torture of its men (particularly Angel and Spike) to reach into the viewers' subconscious and pick the erotic shivers out of the dark recesses of the id that emerge watching these scenes. In an un-overthought way, it is a very well-thought out, rather horrifying way to give viewers "the willies."